X: shmutz, why does the reasoning that led to the first flag bug replay not apply to the second flag bug during said replay?

X: as i see it, both are ping related bugs and both effect the score and the players' psyche

shmutz: in the second game (replay) there was no false score due to a bug

shmutz: if you mean that in the replay someone returned a flag and then opponent picked it up then you mean something which is not even really a bug, though its caused by the same mechanism in the code

shmutz: that happens when someone sends a return of the flag quicker than the one picking it up. the server then takes a look at what was really earlier (regardless of all lags) and gives the flag back. that's why i described it as "you see things too late"

X: the flag bug is not a bug either, it is a result of ping (as i understand it) and is equally a part of the game. Still it makes sense to replay it, though it is an unfortunate detriment to both teams, but no more sense than it makes to replay the other. both it and the lag resulting in a returned/picked up flag had the same result: TC scored because the opponent was not able to return that flag, MOFO was denied a score because their capture of the flag was

X: interrupted by a flag bug.

X: in both cases the score/psyche was adversely affected by ping issues

X: I think at this point I have said all I have to say, I appreciate your response/any further comment you have and respect that what's done is done

X: the PSL map polls are a welcome sight btw, I voted for all modes

X: oh also, imho it would make more sense to do a next map after the forge "draw," as unlike a normal draw there is a good chance MOFO could have scored the point that the flag bug gave them.  Since nothing is for certain, a compromise in my eyes would be to force the would be losing team to pick another map, thus they do not lose the map as they would have but they are denied their first mapchoice as a result of what may likely have been a loss

X: just a thought

shmutz: hehe, well in that compromise there is a lot of guessing what likely might have been or not have been

shmutz: I believe the right of mapchoice should not be affected by a game that (and this is our consensus if I get you right) has to be replayed

shmutz: I still see a big difference between the flag-score-bug and the (lets name it) flag-bug

shmutz: the flag-score-bug affects the score, the flag-bug does not

shmutz: the flag-score-bug makes you score at a point on the map where you just can not score under normal circumstances

shmutz: the flag-bug on the other hand is something that does not even need a fix. it happens when someone with a higher ping returns a flag and then someone with a lower ping picks it up.

shmutz: as the one with the higher ping reports the event later it appears to the server and all others that he "steals" it after it got returned

shmutz: in reality, without any ping delay, he was nevertheless the one who was first, it only got reported to late

shmutz: the server knows by comparing the miliseconds of the game and "corrects" what it did so far

shmutz: a negative side-effect of a replay whenever there is a flag-bug would be that I could manipulate a game, just by getting a higher ping and force a rematch (e.g. if I am about to lose)

shmutz: that's what I want to prevent, that it starts getting all about having the worst ping we still allow

shmutz: what remains is the psyche it affects. but in future games I believe many players will know know whats actually the case (that -in real time, without any lags- the opponent picked up the flag already) and can just say, ok, the other one was actually earlier and I just got it reported late

shmutz: which should not affect the psyche much. the scores are not wrong, actually nothing is wrong except for that it appears a little strange to some

shmutz: again: replaing all games with a flag-bug would really set an incentive to higher your ping (e.g. by starting to download something at a second computer) whenever you are about to lose and hope for a flag-bug to happen

shmutz: we always need to have an eye on what could be abused, thats why we e.g. never halt/pause a game when someone gets disconnected like ESL does, because you could easily abuse that

shmutz: in a 1on1 for example: you realize your opponent has a run of luck and you just disconnect to interrupt it. if the game gets halted you don't even have any disadvantage for wilful disruption, the mechanism even sets an incentive

shmutz: I hope you see now why we decided so - and I also hope you understand why we will keep it as it is now

X: okay, I see your point and it is good