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PSL Title Matches tonight, one last word regarding Asylum

The PSL Title Matches will take place in a bit more than an hour, hope to see you!

We did not really want to heat-up the Asylum matter as it really does not help much to argue about something we won't change. However, some things have been said repeatedly that made us doubt people have understand what we wrote. Maybe our post was too complicated and did not stress out the basic arguments enough to be understandable for non-native english speakers. We would therefore like to repeat the core points we gave and respond to some points that have been brought up against us:

1. Our decision is based on what we found out technically via our anti-cheat binary. We let Asylum play again after his match vs. Undertaker to make really sure he cheats. And he did.

2. We won't provide the technical evidence that we have - for two reasons: most importantly it would tremendously help the wrong people and besides that the critics of our decision would probably still not be satisfied because they might not even have the technical background to know what we were doing and/or you could always doubt any evidence by saying it's fake. An example: if we gave a log that showed some output indicating a cheat, critics could still just say that this is not a log from that game, it would not prove anything as it's just some text. Even what the critics refer to as the only "real" evidence (ie. to fully disclose how the mechanism works) would not solve the conflict. It would still not give the critics the "absolute" evidence that asylum was detected, as the critics were not seeing the mechanism getting triggered live during the game. We really have no incentive to reveal that information therefore. It would only do harm and mean a lot of work to put in a new way to detect cheaters, if not more. We can't make you understand, but we hope you do.

3. The Videos are no proof, nor do or did we ever claim that they are(!). They are what we created to make you see how such a cheat works, and we picked the situations where Asylum must have "guessed" where the enemy is. We had the impression that so many good "guesses" in a 5 minute game would be convincing and therefore might serve you as something to believe in our decision. And: Of course Asylum looked towards other directions in other scenes - but this does not prove his innocence. Keep in mind that that's exactly what everyone would do who tries to hide his cheating. If you really think about it, you'll figure that the moments where he did not look are the ONLY important ones. There - and only there - it's narrowed down to either you believe he's the best "guesser" of all times, or he's not.

4. We're not related to the SCC. We even objected as the whole thing was based not on techical evidence, but only on the opinion of some players. It was one of the reasons to start with our anti-cheat binary. But: I still believe the idea to do something against cheaters was honorable and we wish more people would see that all they were trying to do is solving an urgent matter in the best way they could. The means were insufficient and in our opinion it's good that they stopped. But the will they showed to do something is honorable and not something that should be used against them by others who don't do anything about cheating.

5. We are not related to the ESL, nor their responsibles. We do not even really follow what they do nor do we know how they came up with their decision on Asylum. Our decision was not even influenced by it, as we didn't even know he was banned there before. Our only bond to ESL was a few chats with XP from ESL and the mutual agreement that we would not stage games at the same days and times. We also considered having the ESL ladders for a way to qualify for PSL without much following up and that's about it.

6. FK had the chance to replay their title match. The timeframe was short, but we would like two things to be taken into consideration when talking about that issue: for one thing almost every other tournament would ban the team without even giving an opportunity to replay the match. You coud even say it's rather unfair that we gave the opportunity than vice versa. The other thing is that we had to look for a second qualifying team. A team who won with a cheater can't seriously expect neither us nor the rest of the community to wait until you it's fully satisfied with everything. We would even rather dare to say that the ones that play the game honestly have a right that the damage created by the cheater is as small as it can be for them.

7. We are not saying nor even trying to say or sugesting that Asylum or FK are people we don't like or anything similar. The opposite is much rather the case. We were always aware that they play an important role in the sauer community and are a bunch of very positive, friendly and good players. This Asylum issue won't change that, nor do we want the community in any way to create false prejudices against FK and cube2.fr and vice versa. FK showed a reaction that is very human and would have been similar in any other clan who knows each other as well from mumble like FK does. Something like this is hard to believe if you believe you know someone well from audio-chat. Anyway - both FK and the whole french speaking community are still more than welcome to play in PSL (excluding of course Asylum for the year of his ban). And to make that very clear: we only kicked people for their behaviour during the Qualification games namely b/c of their name changes, provokative names, text-spamming and repeated disturbing from outside. This was not even something new, but rather something we even had to do and did several times in the months/years before. We had to take the necessary steps and we will do it again and against anyone who is attacking/dusturbing in the future.

 

 

We would like you to read some of the ongoing discussion. Yet again, we can only repeat that we have to accept and will accept that some of you will dislike us and PSL for the decision. We believe it your right to question what we do, and we actually even rather have people who do question what we do than people who don't reflect things at all. Anyway, we had to decide that way, otherwise the whole anti-cheat-client-philosohy would just be absurd... Ok. Here are some Links to the discussion:

Discussion at the TC-Forum (mind the order, its from latest to oldest) (mefisto seems to be one who really got our point)

Post at RB website

 

 

November's Qualification Games took place

Congratulations to all winners that managed to become the new Challengers: Majikal & Drakas in ffa, Hero in Insta, _|_ (mixed team) in capture, MOFO (mixed team) and TC in CTF, and TNT (mixed team) in iCTF!

Two more things:

About the Campo in ffa: We had the impression Majikal and Drakas did not play the map really, therefore we decided to do a replay on complex. The map was criticized by many and we will try to pick a better one next time. Nevertheless, we would also like you to not to play unsportsmanlike. We have many spectators that want to see a thrilling game. Get the best out of any map! Thanks.

About FK: Some FK players put a lot of effort in disturbing the games. We do not appreciate that. The asylum-issue is talked about in all detail in various IRC channels and PMs now and is now done and dealt with. There is no point in bugging us, as it won't change the decision. It may be honorable that you defend your clanmate, but it is inacceptable that you try to ruin the fun others have playing or specing the games. Please refrain from such actions, or we have take the necessary steps, like bans from PSL, perma-bans from our servers, etc.

 

New anti-cheat-client

The new anti cheat client is ready for download. It has a new feature you will like: on the lower right corner there is a timer that tells you how much time is remaining. It takes up to one minute until it counts in seconds, as it waits for the server to tell the remaining time.

 

Download it from here: Anti-Cheat Client

 

Asylum banned for one year, FK has to replay the iCTF title match

Before you read this: please notice, that this decision is final and we won't change it. There is no reason to argue with us, nor will we react much to anyone who tries to tell us his view about it. We simply don't have the time. We wish this would not have happened, but it was not on us.

After we had some technical hint/evidence that Asylum might be running another process while playing PSL, we invested a lot of time to analyze some of the demos. What we figured is that he used at least a wallhack in several games. We won't disclose the technical means, as this would help people who know about programming to avoid our anti-cheat-means in the future. We want to keep all means in the client secret as long as we can. I believe you understand.

Luckily, there is no need to reveal the technical part, as it is obvious from the demos as well.

What we give you first is one small scene from the Qualification game vs. t-chen. Here you have the most obvious scene. Watch it slow motion and/or loop it, so you understand what is happening. The videos shows a split screen. The left half is what you can see normally, the right half is what you'd see with a wall-hack. We used a wallhack that is developed open source and available on the internet. It does not matter whether he hits the opponent or not, as a wallhack does not improve your aiming. A wallhack just helps you to "guess" where the opponent is,as you see your opponent through the walls. It's a very popular kind of cheat e.g. in Counterstrike. What makes it obvious is that he exactly predicts with his fielt of view and crosshair where the enemy will be, although he actually can't predict it because every spawn is random and he hasn't yet seen the enemy.

http://sauerleague.org/cheat/Asylum_Wallhack_6.mov

What we have been looking for in the demos is always the same: We were looking for moments where you can't know where the opponent is, without having tampered with the client or using other prosesses. In Sauerbraten that's always the case after you fragged your opponent. If your opponent then (RANDOMLY!) spawns somewhere, where you cant see him (behind a wall)  you have to find out, or you have to guess. Every good player guesses every now and then and is even right in his prediction sometimes, but he gets fragged for guessing wrong just as often. We all have experienced that, we all know that. In Asylums case, he guessed exactly right (even without taking a look around) at least 5 times in a 5-minute game. You'll have to agree that the chances similar to win jackpot at the lottery.

I would therefore like you to take a look at 5 scenes from Asylum's game vs. Undertaker.

Again: All scenes meet the following requirements:

1. Asylum frags the opponent

2. The opponent therefore spawns RANDOMLY on the map (meaning asylum can't know where the opponent is)

3. Asylum can't see the spawn nor the enemy, but "guesses" right, without much looking around towards all the other spawnpoints the opponent could spawn at

http://sauerleague.org/cheat/Asylum_Wallhack_1.mov
http://sauerleague.org/cheat/Asylum_Wallhack_2.mov
http://sauerleague.org/cheat/Asylum_Wallhack_3.mov
http://sauerleague.org/cheat/Asylum_Wallhack_4.mov
http://sauerleague.org/cheat/Asylum_Wallhack_5.mov

 

If you want to see all scenes in its context, download the whole game from here (approx. 186 MB):

http://www.FastShare.org/download/Asylum_Undertaker_split.mov

 

I (shmutz) talked to Asylum today, because I wanted to give him the chance to explain and/or admit the wallhack. If he admitted, the ruling would have been milder and i believe many of you would have accepted that, as averyone does a mistake sometimes and everyone can change to the better. Anyway, he said he didn't use a cheat and he said he used the sound. If you rewatch the videos, you'll find out that in Video 1 he can't hear anything, in Video 2 he first guesses right and THEN than can hear a jump 0.1 secs before he shoots, in video 3 and 4 he yet again first guesses right before he can hear any sound from the opponent and in Videos 5 and 6 he just can't hear anything again. We doubt his explanation therefore.

I would like to ask everyone to review the videos and make their own decision. Maybe even review all demos available at the site. Especially take a look at other players, like Honzik1 who play about as good. They "guess" a lot less and always doublecheck all realistic possibilities. Anyway, our decision is made and we have to protect PSL. It is therefore final. We know that many of you would like to get to know what evidence we have from a technical standpoint, but we can't disclose this information. Again: It would seriously raise the chances that we get more cheaters. As we believe that you can even tell from the demos in Asylum's case, we don't see much sense in disclosing and explaining what our anti-cheat binary does. We want to keep this "ultimate" possibility to catch someone who uses a similar cheat and is clever enough not to do it in a way that you can even tell from the demos. We hope you understand. If you don't like our ruling, you are of course free not to attend PSL anymore. That's the risk we have to take here. We hope that the opposite will be the case and that you gain confidence in us and that we do something about cheating at PSL.

One last thing: I would like to warn everyone again, not to cheat at PSL. We know a lot about what's available, especially we know about the "cheat-clients" / "Sauerbraten Hack" clients that are spread or even made available at some forums, websites, etc. Don't try to use them at PSL. And for your own good, don't even use them on any public server.

 

This is our ruling:

1. Asylum is banned from any(!) PSL games for 1 year up until the Qualification games for December 2010.

2. Tenshi stays titleholder in Instagib and will get the Grand Championship if he manages to defend the title this month.

3. As Asylum played in the iCTF-team of FK too, FK loses the iCTF title and may either replay the title-match vs. TC with someone else than Asylum or they may refuse to play. In the latter case TC will not get the title, but as they qualified already, they don't have to qualify again. In the former case FK will have to let the referees know before 5pm (German Time) tomorrow who the team is. If the game gets replayed it will be played right after the Qualifications are over.

 

 

SauerClub

http://sauerclub.org

:-)

 


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